Name

Stephen Pincus

Number

OH 415

Subject

Immigrants--Canada

Interview Date

26 Apr. 2015

Interviewer

Jessica Parker

Total Running Time

1 hr. 23 min.

Use Restrictions

Restriction noted by interviewee on video/oral history release form: The foregoing is subject to OJA obtaining my prior written consent prior to placing any of the interview on the internet (other than password protected communications)

Researches should be directed to the access copy created by Stephen Pincus.

Biography

Although he grew up in South Africa, Stephen was born in England where his father was studying. When they returned to South Africa in 1963, they visited Israel on the way, and five-year-old Stephen fell in love with the exotic, young Jewish state.

As a teenager, Stephen was active in Habonim, South Africa’s largest Zionist youth movement and became head of that movement in the late 1970s, running the largest Jewish youth camp in the world. Stephen was also elected chair of South Africa’s Zionist Youth Council, the umbrella body for all-Jewish youth organizations in the country. He and his wife Michelle then moved to Israel with a Habonim group that established Kibbutz Tuval in the western Galilee.

In 1982 Stephen came to study in Toronto. He served as administrator of Bialik Hebrew Day School and as camp director of Camp Shalom, while completing MBA and LLB degrees, and was awarded the Gold Medal at Osgoode Hall Law School. Stephen and Michelle started a family and both their own parents immigrated to Toronto.

Stephen is a senior partner and executive committee member at Goodmans LLP, is widely regarded as one of Canada’s leading business lawyers, and has played a pioneering role in the development of the country’s capital markets. He is is the founding chair of the Canada Africa Chamber of Business, a director of Kew Media Group, a member of the Board of Governors of the Jewish Agency for Israel, chair of the board of Makom, and founder of Kaleidoscope, a unique multi-dimensional Israel engagement program.

He and his wife Michelle; their two married children, Daniel and Lisa; granddaughter Olivia; and therapy dog Mannee all live in Toronto.

Material Format

moving images

Language

English

Name Access

Pincus, Stephen, 1958-

Geographic Access

England

Original Format

Digital file

Copy Format

Digital file

Transcript

00:56 Stephen discusses his family background, including notable forebears, his grandparents' immigration in the early 1900s, and the largely Lithuanian composition of the South African Jewish community.

03:04 Stephen discusses his South-African-born parents' backgrounds and how they met.

05:14 Stephen mentions that he was born in England in 1958, while his family was abroad for his father's medical studies. He lived there until they returned to South Africa in 1964.

06:25 Stephen remembers arriving in South Africa and all the family that had come to greet them who hadn't seen his parents for eight years. He mentions that all correspondence happened via mail.

08:01 Stephen describes his family's relationship to Judaism: They were Orthodox in name, but took a pragmatic approach. Stephen went to public school and received a lot of his Jewish education from Habonim.

09:27 Stephen describes his bar mitzvah celebrations. Stephen remembers preparing his speech. He enjoys public speaking and this was a starting point.

10:49 Stephen talks about the Habonim youth movement. Stephen's involvement began in his early teens. He became the head of the movement in the late 1970s and ran the camp for a couple of years. Stephen is organizing a trip this summer to Israel for alumni of Habonim.

14:50 Stephen explains that he has a foot in South Africa, Canada, and Israel.

15:43 Stephen talks about the unique environment in South Africa that contributed to Zionism. He talks about the Soweto Uprising in 1976. Israel was a place where South African Jews could create something better. Stephen finds it ironic that some see in Israel a continuation of apartheid.

19:53 Stephen talks about his parents' view of his involvement in Habonim. He relates a story where his father became upset when Stephen participated in a march protesting a United Nations resolution instead of studying for an exam.

21:37 Stephen's father was risk-averse and practical. He wasn't keen on Stephen moving to Israel and would discourage his son indirectly. Stephen went to Israel anyway.

22:20 Stephen's parents did not give voice to strong political views. Stephen remembers being at a poetry reading at a friend's parents' house when he was eight. It was his first mixed-race experience. Stephen and his friends were politically active in high school and as undergraduate students.

24:27 Stephen explains how Zionism and Israel were his major focus while the South African situation was secondary. Stephen remembers visiting Soweto a number of times.

26:00 Stephen discusses the paradox of under apartheid while opposing it. He sees this as a central issue that white South Africans of his generation faced. He discusses the Truth and Reconciliation Commission hearings of the 1990s.

28:24 Stephen recounts how Israel fell into the arms of South Africa after being pushed away by various African states in the 1970s.

29:03 Stephen describes his involvement in resuscitating Machon Le'Madrichei Chutz La'Aretz, a year-long leadership course for youth leaders in Israel. South African Jews would defer their army service to participate. In 1975, the South African government determined it would not let Jewish students defer for this purpose.

31:16 Stephen discusses his decision to leave South Africa.

32:51 Stephen discusses how not going on Machon is one of his regrets.

33:28 Stephen discusses the places he considered immigrating to. He was focused on going to Israel and was part of a group that went to live on a kibbutz in the western Galilee.

37:24 Stephen discusses previous trips to Israel. The first time he went to the country was when his family went from England to South Africa. This was before the Six-Day War and he remembers barbed wire in Jerusalem. Stephen thinks he probably fell in love with Israel at this time.

38:32 Stephen explains the meaning of the words machon and garin.

39:23 Stephen describes the kupah meshutefet ("common treasury box") economic system. The system didn't last very long.

40:16 Stephen describes how his family and friends reacted to the news that he was making aliyah.

41:09 Stephen discusses a car trip he and his wife took throughout South Africa. He relates how they were caught in a flood and ended up being taken in by a Black family. Stephen reflects on the irony of their situation.

44:07 Stephen discusses he and his wife's arrival in Israel. Stephen was accepted by Hebrew University to study law. Ultimately, he and his wife chose to move to Toronto at the beginning of 1982.

45:06 Stephen shares what he brought with him to Toronto from South Africa.

47:20 Stephen discusses his initial trip to Canada in January 1982. He thinks that it was the coldest winter Toronto experienced until 2014. He discusses some of the hurdles he faced adjusting to the new climate.

51:33 Stephen discusses settling in Canada and going to school.

56:25 Stephen discusses opening an issue of the Canadian Jewish News and seeing that a summer camp was looking for a director. He was director for a couple of years and he and his wife would spend their summer at the camp.

57:05 Stephen discusses how Habonim was different from Camp Shalom, the camp he worked at in Canada.

58:24 Stephen discusses his transition from being involved in a Zionist and socialist youth movement to ending up in business and corporate law. He notes that he has shifted in a number of respects in terms of his perspective on economic values, social values, and religious values.

1:02:55 Stephen discusses his experience integrating into Canadian society.

1:05:20 Stephen contrasts his parents' experience coming later in life with his own experience. They had a wonderful time when they came because there was a large community of retired South African expatriates by then.

1:09:54 Stephen discusses the role of the local Jewish community, and local South African Jewish community, played in his acclimatization.

1:11:59 Stephen discusses how he came to work for Goodmans.

1:14:17 Stephen discusses the differences he has noticed between Canadians and South Africans. He feels that South Africans as a group tend to be more direct than Canadians. In his opinion, South Africans lie somewhere between Israelis and Canadians in terms of directness.

1:17:51 Stephen discusses his journey, coming from a secular Zionist background and starting a program of Jewish learning later in life.

1:20:40 Stephen discusses his own approach to keeping Jewish traditions and customs. He is observant, but not dogmatic.

1:26:11 Stephen discusses his two children. His son is a medical resident and his daughter is finishing up a law/business administration program.

1:27:09 Stephen discusses synagogues he is involved with.

1:29:10 Stephen discusses cultural differences he has experienced raising his children in Canada.

1:33:04 Stephen explains the decisions he and his wife made regarding their children's education.

1:35:15 Stephen describes his children's relationships with their grandparents.

1:37:31 Stephen answers the question, "Do you feel Canadian?"

1:41:55 Stephen discusses his involvement with the Canada-South Africa Chamber of Business.

1:42:42 Stephen discusses the differences in being involved with the ex-South African community more broadly and the ex-South African Jewish community.

1:44:58 Stephen discusses his children's connections to South Africa, which he says are quite limited.

1:46:37 Stephen shares food words and expressions that he shared with his children and which they now use.

1:47:55 Stephen offers a few final remarks about his decision to immigrate to Canada and the relationship between Canadian identity, Jewish/Israeli identity, and South African identity.

Source

Oral Histories

Israel, the Opportunity for New Beginnings

An Indoor Life

Name

Karrie Weinstock

Number

OH 435

Subject

Immigrants--Canada

Interview Date

11 Jul. 2016

Interviewer

Lisa Newman

Total Running Time

OH 435 part 1: 22 min.

OH 435 part 2: 11 min.

OH 435 part 3: 22 min.

OH 435 part 4: 5 min.

Biography

Karrie’s life has long been characterized by both privilege and an acute sensitivity to the challenges facing those less fortunate than herself. Although she grew up in a happy professional family, her childhood was marked by uncertainty. Her father, Jack Unterhalter, was a civil-rights lawyer in the apartheid era, active in left-wing politics, and Karrie recalls him keeping a packed briefcase by the door during the state of emergency in case the authorities should come for him.

As a young woman, Karrie studied to be an English teacher at Homerton College, Cambridge. She then returned to South Africa, where she taught for two years, before moving to Boston to pursue a master’s degree in educational administration, planning, and social policy at Harvard. Upon graduating, she took a position at Milton Academy, an independent school in Boston. She enjoyed her time there but chose to relocate to Toronto, where she had an aunt. For over three decades, she has worked at Branksome Hall, first as an English teacher, then as an administrator, and now in her current role as deputy principal.

In 1985, Karrie married Michael Weinstock, a native Torontonian, whose family embraced her as one of their own. Both Karrie and Michael had been married previously, and, through her marriage to Michael, she inherited three beautiful stepdaughters. Karrie and Michael had a child of their own, a son who shares his mother’s love of South Africa, visiting the country each year.

Recognizing her great fortune in life, Karrie gives back through her volunteer work with the Stephen Leacock Foundation, which, among other initiatives, supports low-fee independent schools in South Africa that are connected to independent and public schools in Canada so as to form a unique triangle of hope.

Material Format

moving images

Language

English

Name Access

Weinstock, Karen

Geographic Access

Boston (Mass.)

Cambridge (England)

Jamestown (South Africa)

Johannesburg (South Africa)

Toronto (Ont.)

Original Format

Digital file

Transcript

Part 1:

00:00 Karrie outlines her immediate family. She was born in Johannesburg, South Africa.

01:28 Karrie discusses her family history. Her maternal grandfather was born in 1891 in Lithuania. He came to South Africa in 1914 to escape the military. Her maternal grandmother was born in 1903 in Lithuaniaf. Her paternal grandfather was born in 1888 in Poland. Her paternal grandmother, whose parents came from Lithuania, was born in London in 1893.

03:54 Karrie discusses her father's career as a civil rights lawyer. She discusses her father's role as a founding member of the Liberal Party in South Africa.

06:35 Karrie discusses the impact her father's political activism had on her family. She offers examples to illustrate the unique situation in her home while growing up (e.g. political meetings, fear of her father's imminent arrest, visits from political prisoners).

08:26 Karrie offers her impressions of the position taken by the greater Jewish community in South Africa.

09:27 Karrie explains why she and her siblings attended independent schools.

11:00 Karrie discusses her family's involvement in the Jewish community and Jewish practice.

13:15 Karrie discusses how her parents stressed the importance of education and viewed education as a means of leaving South Africa. She discusses the education paths of her siblings as well as her own. Karrie received her teaching qualifications at Cambridge and earned a master's degree in administration planning and social policy at Harvard.

15:34 Karrie lives in Canada. Her sister lives in London. Her brother opted to return to South Africa.

16:38 Karrie relates an anecdote that compares her current situation of seeing her mother once a year with Black workers in South Africa who saw their children once a year.

17:48 Karrie explains that both her sister and brother were unable to return to South Africa for a period of time. In her sister's case it was due to her political activity; in her brother's case, it was due to his refusal to serve in the military.

18:55 Karrie discusses her "charmed" life growing up.

20:54 Karrie discusses her teaching qualifications and first teaching position at an independent school for mixed-race students.

Part 2:

00:56 Karrie discusses her experience at Harvard. Specifically, she mentions a friendship.

06:09 Karrie explains why her parents preferred that she not return to South Africa.

07:09 Karrie relates the story of finding a job at Milton Academy in Boston following graduation.

Part 3:

00:00 Karrie explains how she decided to move to Toronto.

03:45 Karrie explains how she became engaged and married to Clive Lovett in 1979. She explains the factors that contributed to the end of their four-year marriage.

05:16 Karrie discusses her teaching and administrative responsibilities at Branksome Hall.

12:59 Karrie describes meeting and marrying Michael Weinstock. Michael has three children from a previous marriage. Karrie and Michael have one son together.

15:20 Karrie explains how Peter Oliver, a prominent South African-born Toronto philanthropist and businessman, arranged to fund and build an independent school, the Get-Ahead Project School in rural South Africa. She explains her involvement with the project and the connection with Branksome Hall, Rose Avenue Public School, a high-needs school in Toronto, and the Get-Ahead Project School in South Africa.

Part 4:

00:00 Karrie continues to describe the inter-school program that has been set up for students at Branksome Hall, a school in Jamestown; Toronto, and the Get-Ahead school.

02:26 Karrie discusses her role on the board of the Leacock Foundation and her opportunity to further the inter-school program. She cites an example of how they contributed to the Get-Ahead school.

04:17 Karrie reminisces about times when she felt Canadian.

Source

Oral Histories

A Triangle of Hope

A Packed Suitcase by the Door

A Charmed Existence